Traynor MK3

[crispycircuit]

Yorkville had a warehouse,etc, in Batavia NY for a few yrs. Those amps will say Batavia NY. I believe only minor assembly was done there in order to say Made in USA. ... I rewired mine to have reverb and trem on both channels..... I use 1 2x12 cab rated at 4 ohms. I played a couple big jobs and have never run out of power. I need a clean sound for both channels. Keyborard one channel, and guitar other. But really like clean for certain songs. So this is perfect for me. ..... The other thing is Traynor used circuit breakers instead of fuses. So idiots can't stuff a larger fuse in an blow a transformer, etc.. Smart!.... On all my guitar amps I build a bracket and mount a fan for cooling. Heat is rough on everything..... Also, you need to keep your individual channel volume control above 3 to get a full sound. After you set your volumes then use the master for volume needed..... Enjoy.

[nyazzip]

my mkIII has started acting funny....i've been using both speaker outputs, and the one labelled "extension" has become intermittant- not dead silent, but almost. but more worrying, today i started to get what must be the "motorboating" effect while playing; thats the perfect description of it. i turned it off immediately. so i guess i have to find some coupling capacitors. i don't think i'll find the correct values in a multistage version, so i guess i will use individual radial caps? the values are 40uF, 450v

[crispycircuit]

Sorry to hear the amp is acting up. Try firing up the amp without the extra extension cab and no inputs? The speaker wire needs to be at least 18 gauge zip cord, NO guitar cables for speaker hook up. I would guess the extension speaker needs to be cleaned. 220 wet or dry sand paper rolled to fit in the jack works great. Also make sure your total speaker ohms is no lower than 4 ohms.... I'd try switching swapping some tubes with known good ones.... If you do need to replace the electrolytics. JJ has multisection caps that are 500 volt that would make the repair easier and look pro. Maybe check the resistors in the screen grid area. Usually 10 watt sand cast type.... Try this and let me know???......

[nyazzip]

i'm going to go to triode(the store) today or tomorrow and see if they can sell me some caps....i can't believe they are 10 bucks each! thats $40 just for the coupling caps, yikes
i guess i need aluminum foil electrolytics right? i was wondering if i should up the voltage specs, from 450v...i guess i will go with 500 like you suggest. i notice the given tolerances seem pretty wide on caps of these types too. sure hope this "motorboating" noise dissappears after $40.
on the positive side i did manage to clip the old ones out, and i didn't even get electrocuted. yee haw
regarding speaker cab impedances, i read somewhere that the amp is best suited for a 4 ohm load(it has no markings). i run 2 separate 8 ohm cabs, one out of the "speaker" output, the other out of the "extension speaker" output....so does this configuration qualify as a 4 ohm load on the OPT?
cheers

[Cygnus X1]

That's very steep for those caps.
I get mine through Weber...other places to look at are Mouser,
Antique Radio. I'm not a big fan of Triode.

The speaker impedance from the jacks depends on how those jacks are wired. You might want to double check. I just use the proper taps from the OT to get what I need.

[TomMcNally]

so i guess i have to find some coupling capacitors. i don't think i'll find the correct values in a multistage version, so i guess i will use individual radial caps? the values are 40uF, 450v

40 mfd at 450 volts is NOT a "coupling cap" - it's a power supply capacitor.
Coupling caps are in the amplifier between tubes and are typically low
values from .01 to .47 mfd ...

The problem you are describing could be many different things, it
doesn't make much sense to just assume it's the capacitors.

$ 10 each isn't a bad price for a name brand high voltage electrolytic

... tom

[nyazzip]

40 mfd at 450 volts is NOT a "coupling cap" - it's a power supply capacitor.
Coupling caps are in the amplifier between tubes and are typically low
values from .01 to .47 mfd ...

The problem you are describing could be many different things, it
doesn't make much sense to just assume it's the capacitors.

$ 10 each isn't a bad price for a name brand high voltage electrolytic

... tom

thank you for the info...as you see, i still know nothing about electronics. without an in-person mentor, i am convinced that there is really no way to learn. i have never seen a book on electronics that breaks things down into anything close to laymans terms.
my dream is to stand beside someone who knows what they are talking about, and have him trace the electricity path from start to finish, with explanations in between, through a simple tube amplifier. hell i would pay someone for this. schematics don't do anything for me.
anywho, the amp has had a rather loud hum since i got it. and since the capacitors are 34 years old, i figured it can't hurt to replace the big electrolytics. the motorboating thing just popped up, and i have also read that caps can cause this too. so i think it is a reasonable course of action, and certainly one that i can tackle.
from my online browsing, $10 seems average, unfortunately, for electrolytics of this value

[TomMcNally]

Well ... I think you should try a schematic again, and trace it though from
power cord to high voltage, and from input jack to speaker jack.

I learned a lot that way, when I was about 12 years old.

Take a little time to identify the components, then just follow it
though. It's easier than you think.

You're correct - many of those old capacitors should be replaced,
all electrolytics are suspect, and anything that looks leaky.

I like Handmade - hndme.com for caps, he only carries the
ones used in audio, so there aren't 10 million to choose from
like Mouser, and for me, I get next day delivery at ground
prices, since he's close.

[nyazzip]

ok, update on the project: i drove into the city and stopped by Triode...as usual, they guys bent over backwards to answer my questions and fill my modest order, on which they cut me a good deal. so: big props to Triode; i have had nothing but good IN PERSON experiences with them. mail order, well, i avoid it with anyone.
anywho, i replaced the stock 40 uF 450v "power caps" with 40 uF 500v caps... the hum seemed to diminish...the motorboating is also less obvious...but the problem is not solved. SO, i went ahead and swapped speaker jacks...the "extension" jack has very very little output, and when i turn it up, the signal remains quiet, and becomes very distorted.
mind you, the motorboating sound and the wacky-jack problems seemed to start simultaneously. so, any theories? am i losing the output transformer?

to recap(pun not intended): power supply caps have been replaced, but i still have a "motorboating" effect, which suddenly surfaced in the past 2 weeks, and one output jack is very, very, very weak. no, the jack is not corroded.
i describe it as "motorboating" because it is a very low frequency that oscillates and produces a putt-putt sound. i daresay the perceived "putt-putt" frequency may have risen slightly with the new caps, but i wouldn't stake much on that assesment...
oops and one last important detail: this is a master volume model; with the recap, very little distortion is now realized as i crank the preamp volume; before today, cranking the pre produced a fairly heavy signal clip...not a sound that i particularly loved, but, i figured it was important to to include that character shift.
one last thing, the motorboating doesn't kick in immediately. after playing around, it seems like the oscilations can be induced by playing low notes on the guitar. the speakers really travel when it starts, so i guess it is pretty much subsonic. throwing the standby switch off and on again "resets" the amp to normal again, until a low note is played again
this is actually fascinating to me, i'm not even angry about it, yet Yellow_Light_Colorz_PDT_05

[cartoonweirdo]

Hi nyazip.

Motorboating is is usualy caused by an excess of low frequency response. The first guess you had (coupling caps with non-original values) is the usual culprit. Not having your schematic in front of me I would say that you should try replacing the coupling caps and also the cathode bypass caps (replacing the filter caps was a good bet too). These are low cost items (around US $1 ea.) but there can be a lot of them.

As to your speaker jacks, they are probably conected in paralell, which is to say the hots and the commons are wired directly to each other. Here's how to tell what's going on:

Plug your amp into everything. Play it to make sure the ext spkr jack is acting up.

Put it on standby and switch the cords in the ext spkr and normal spkr jack. Turn it on an play it again.

If the problem changes SPEAKERS the jack or the cord is to blame. Swap the speaker cords to see if it is the cord.

If the problem switches JACKS (the normal spkr jack now has no output) the problem is either your cord or your speaker cabinet (the cabinet also has a jack and some wire in it, e-mail me or post here if you have a cabinet problem and we'll get it fixed). Again switch your speaker cord to make sure this isn't a cableing problem.

If the problem is your ext spkr jack the fastest thing will be to switch the jack. It should be $1-2. If you look at the jack and see cold solders or broken wires than the solution is obvious. In fact fire up your amp with the chasis out of the cabinet, plug in only your cable and drop the end on the floor so that it makes an anoying buzz, and poke the wires going to the ext spkr jack with something NONCONDUCTIVE (try a chopstick or a sharpie). If wiggling the wire results in turning the cabinet on and off it the wire or the solder. Reheat your old solders, if that fails solder a new wire in.

Your amp's ext jack will not work without something pluged into the spkr jack. This is a saftey consideration for your output transformer, and is a good idea, but you will have to use both at once to find and fix ext jack problems.

In case no one told you before, Those big filter caps you replaced store potentialy lethal voltages. If you are to go poking around in your amp you must be sure they are discharged. They can shock or kill you even if the amp is unplugged (I know from getting shocked). If you want to discharge them it is easy. Unplug your amp and short the hot to ground. You would idealy do this through a 100K resistor, but I have seen techs using a screwdriver, a VOM lead, or the VOM itself set on the ohms scale. Whatever you use make sure that it is insulated, or guess who will also become a path to ground.

Last of all I am willing to try to teach you the basics of electronics as they relate to tube guitar amps. I can explain in english, and I do not need to be paid. I am, however, in Portland Oregon. You may e-mail me at cartoonweirdo@comcast.net if you like.

Good luck with your Traynor
Carl

[nyazzip]

thanks for the advice cartoon....i have had the amp for a few months. when i got it, my only issue was a 60hz hum. only in the past few weeks did the "motorboating" arise. at this same time i noticed one of the speaker jacks was wack; i suppose it is possible that this jack was wack from the get go, i don't know anymore. however, i did see this morning that the bad jack only has one wire attached: is it possible it is supposed to make contact with the chassis and that completes the circuit? nothing has fallen off nor been removed; the unused jack contents have never been soldered upon... i tried to jumper it from the negative of the other jack to the negative, but no change in status: still a very weak distorted signal. here is a link to a photo, see "The Jack(my lil tribute to AC/DC)"

http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii229/nyazzip/

anyway at this point i'm a lot more concerned with the motorboating as it renders the amp totally completely unusable. i guess i'm going to start with the rest of the electrolytics. some of the values seem weird, like "68 uF 63v". i'm almost tempted to get some turretboard and just try to copy this thing, and make a whole new machine. the soldering and routing is pretty crude looking, even in my modest opinion... i just wish i knew what has been messed with post-factory, if anything

[cartoonweirdo]

hi nya,
Your jack is wired correctly. Replace both the jack and the wire and you ought to be problem free from the perspective of the jack. You need not use a shorting jack (like the one in the picture) if you can't find one, an ordinary 1/4 in jack will do if you make sure the wire goes to the "hot" terminal.

The cathode bypass cap values will be printed on the schematic if you have your doubts as to the originality of the current componants. Fender runs them low (22uf) and some large gain heads run them as high as 200uf but either way the larger the value the more bass response and hence the higher likelyhood of motorboating. Don't hesitate to experiment with different values. You will not break anything.

The caps that I feel you should try replacing are the coupling caps. They are usualy rated from .1uf to .00something uf at 4-600 volts. They are wired in between the plates of a gain stage and the grids of the next one.

Tell me how it goes,
Carl

[nyazzip]

i attached a full top view of the head. i'm going to start by changing all the blue "spiral wrapped" caps on the eyelet board, 10 in all. all the others don't appear to be electrolytic to me, so i suppose they should be fine. the 2 pairs of big blue fat ones are the ones i just replaced(sprague); for now they are just laying there.
i guess i might mess around replacing the jack and it's wire, but i can't imagine it would just quit; its not like i've been touring with Molly Hatchett circa 1973 or anything. the amp hasn't left the house since i bought it; however i've had the top off all summer, and it has gotten humid....

http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii22 ... -mkIII.jpg

[TomMcNally]

I don't see how the jack could be bad ... but I see it doesn't
have a ground wire - maybe if you remove it and clean the
mounting hole in the chassis ... it could be corroded.
The chassis is the ground in this case.

[nyazzip]

ok, i solved the problem! i didn't resolve the mystery, but i know how to deal with it:
as i stated, i have two separate speaker cabs. in theory they are electrically identical- all the speakers came from one Laney 4x12. rather than dragging a 4x12 around, i decided to be slick and make two separate boxes; that is, two 2x12s. right? right.
all of the individual speakers were 16 ohms each- both boxes are wired in series, so each 2x12 box is 8 ohms. fine.
now on to the traynor amp: i finally figured out tonight that you cannot use the "extension speaker" jack on it's own...the "extension speaker" jack will only produce real sound if you also have something plugged into the other jack, which is called "speaker" .
first time i've seen this; all the other amps i've used will power a speaker fine off of any speaker jack. but theres more....
only one of my speaker cabs produces the motorboating effect when used solo, using the "speaker" jack. the other one, used solo out of "speaker jack", does not motorboat.
but, using BOTH speaker boxes, in any configuration, also does not motorboat. and yes, they are wired in phase.
there are a few physical differences in the cabinets, but as i stated, the actual speakers are all identical. the speaker box that does not give me trouble in any configuration is sealed up very tight, and, the cones have been painted with a shiny black rubbery dope i got from parts express(i thought it would make them look newer; they just look glossy and weird; this was a few years ago). it actually sounds pretty crappy. the box that motorboats when used on its own, it's speakers have not been treated, and it is semi-open backed.
so all i can say is thank god i don't smoke pot anymore, or this would have REALLY been REALLY REALLY confusing. whoo..................
BTW the speaker box that motorboats- it works fine with other amps.
long story short, the traynor works and has new filter caps and new reverb tank wire; it remains noisier than i prefer.
thanks for all the input guys