an old traynor

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an old traynor

Postby nyazzip » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:02 pm

i just got ahold of a '74 traynor head, a YGL-3a. anyway, i'm going to try to replace a few things. it hums pretty loud(not buzz, but hum)...there is a fan inside of it and i am wondering it it might be causing it.
there are some gigantic mallory caps inside, look like sticks of dynamite....they seen to have 2 positive leads, so i don't want to get involved with them just yet.
so 3 quick questions:

1)can i simply just disconnect the fan, or would i have to put a resistor or something in line?

2)the rectifier diodes are IN5062; they look....goofy and low tech. should i upgrade these?

3)the tremolo doesn't function at all. i don't know which tube drives it, but could a bad tremolo tube cause a loud hum?

regards
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Postby Geek » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:11 pm

It hums because the power caps are probably dried out and need replacing.

As for the others,

1) leave that, it'll overheat.

2) They are the best diodes ever made for guitar amps. Leave them.

3) no.
-= Gregg =-
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Postby nyazzip » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:41 am

i've heard about "switching noise" so i figured it wouldn't
hurt to put in modern diodes. but i have no clue
as far as heat, well, this fan looks like it requires alot of power, and it is noisy. i know that when i operate a little room fan when i am playing guitar, it creates a huge amount of noise thru my other amps, so i figured the big honkin archaic fan an inch from the transformers in the traynor may not be good. to dissapate heat i intend to operate the amp upside down and open air for now(out of the box- its a head, not a combo), much like my st-35...unless/until i start gigging again
but i guess i will try messing with the capacitors soon.
the hum is pretty obnoxious- its not like i really want to tweak around with this amp, i prettymuch have to...
the tubes are "big bottle" el34s...never seen them before. i thought they were 6l6s until i got it home and looked at them. Phillips USA branded
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Postby Geek » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:02 am

Hi,

nyazzip wrote:i've heard about "switching noise" so i figured it wouldn't
hurt to put in modern diodes.


They have built-in surpressors those and they don't short out as easy as the 1N4007's. Too bad they're getting hard to find nowadays.


as far as heat, well, this fan looks like it requires alot of power, and it is noisy.


Replace it with a computer fan then. The larger ones that can move ~30CFM+ and still be <80dB. Some thrift stores have a box of the things.

Sounds like an interesting find. A nice chunk of Canuck history :)

Cheers!
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Postby Blackburn Audio » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:36 pm

looks like you are in or around Chicago, try American Science and Surplus on milwaukee and central, they usually have computer fans for next to nothing. Replace the caps as soon as you can, if one shorts out you could have a much bigger problem on your hands.

-Matt
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Postby nyazzip » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:54 pm

i may try the computer fan thing, i have a spare one kicking around(been to american science and surplus, fun place!also one in the west suburbs)....BUT: back to my original premise, what if i just yanked the fan out? if i do, should i connect the +_ leads together, or cap them off? what then happens to the extra power that was designed to go to the fan? will voltage/amperage then increase somewhere else in the circuit?
this amp has an "optical" style tremolo circuit also; i was wondering what the heck those little photocell assemblies were for awhile. apparently they don't work either
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Postby crispycircuit » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:37 pm

I've been using a Traynor MK3 in my band for years.... I just love it! The trem circuits rarely work due to bad opto/couplers... I've had to use the Fender opto's and change the circuit to Fender. Then everything is great. It's time consuming but the only way I could find. My MK3 doesn't have a fan. I'm also running 4 Sovtek 5881s because I don't need 100 watts. Anyway, nobody makes amps like that anymore.... Very Cool...
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Postby nyazzip » Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:04 pm

so crispycircuit, what year do you figure your amp is from? i think mines a '74

also, if i'm not interested in tremelo, and mine doesn't work, are there steps i might take to improve/clean up the circuit a bit, i.e. remove "opto couplers" and related trappings?( i would welcome the feature as an option, but not if it means a huge modification or serious knowlege).
thus far i have only been able to play into 8 ohms. i hope to get a 4 ohm high power box together this summer

i haven't messed with mine yet. seems the hum got better after some "exercise". also, i figure i notice less hum if i dial in 117vac with the variac(which is the spec Traynor printed on the backplate) as opposed to using direct line, which i have seen as high as 124vac
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Postby nyazzip » Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:04 pm

oops
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Postby crispycircuit » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:45 pm

My MK3 is a pop-top early 70's. It has the schematic inside. The company that supplied the opt/resistors had too wide of tolerace and many tremelo circuits just didn't work good. Most would drop down in volume when engaged (which will upset off any guitarist). Yes it's a project to fix.... My amp still mostly stock including the power supply caps. I like the sound so much that I don't want to change anything.... Voltages change from place to place... Just set the bias at high voltage and your good....... send a pic....
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pics

Postby nyazzip » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:35 pm

finally got around to photographing the amp. as you may have already surmised, it is a Traynor YGL-3a, circa 1974, and i suspect its been tweaked with a little.
check out the first 5 pics: comments are most welcome, its all pretty alien to me. project # one is to replace the multi stage "dynamite" caps, and go from there.
i disconnected a red lead from the "tremelo intensity" pot on gerald weber's 1993 book's advice(he's the "guru", yeh right) because it wasn't working, at all. better disco than co i guess... nected, that is.

http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii229/nyazzip/
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Postby crispycircuit » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:59 pm

I have the same amp. In your pics, V? is the trem osilator tube, Pic 2 of trim pots are bias and trem circuit. Pic 3 the funny looking painted things are ceramic caps, Pic 4 the black box mounted on braket is the trem opto-resistor coupler.... the black box opto-resistor units varied so much in tolerance that they installed a trim pot to try and make the opto's work. Most the time they don't work anymore. So your forced to buy a Fender style opto and install a fender crircuit. .... The amp looks stock except for the open wound adjustable power resistor. Those mustard color coupling caps are what the old Marshalls used and are desirable. I don't think the fan was stock?? As you know these are big and heavy amps made with the best posible parts at the time. Some people change the screen resistor set up, but I use 6L6s in mine. Congradulations on finding it......
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Postby nyazzip » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:44 pm

thanks, very very helpful stuff for me! i had no idea that box was an optoisolator; i was expecting maybe the "roach" style things that fender used that i have seen pictures of... i wonder why they were so problematic? i wouldn't mind having it working, but its something i would only rarely use.
i was wondering about that resistor with exposed guts; i figured maybe some of the insulation had chipped off of it. doesn't look to "adjustable" to me...
my amp employs 6CA7s, as it was designed. why would people mess with the screen resistors?
the fan is included in the schematic, so it is indeed original.
someone wrote a small novel on the schematic (traynor apparently included a schematic inside each amp, for those of you who may not know)which made me wonder if had been modified. i can't make it out/understand it, but it appears to have been written in 1974, which is also the year the amp was made.
one last thing, can i remove the tremolo oscillator tube and still use the amp normally? as i said, i already snipped a tremelo lead so i'm committed to not using it. i wouldn't mind using the tube for something else if i can
regards



i have the same amp. In your pics, V? is the trem osilator tube, Pic 2 of trim pots are bias and trem circuit. Pic 3 the funny looking painted things are ceramic caps, Pic 4 the black box mounted on braket is the trem opto-resistor coupler.... the black box opto-resistor units varied so much in tolerance that they installed a trim pot to try and make the opto's work. Most the time they don't work anymore. So your forced to buy a Fender style opto and install a fender crircuit. .... The amp looks stock except for the open wound adjustable power resistor. Those mustard color coupling caps are what the old Marshalls used and are desirable. I don't think the fan was stock?? As you know these are big and heavy amps made with the best posible parts at the time. Some people change the screen resistor set up, but I use 6L6s in mine. Congradulations on finding it......
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Postby crispycircuit » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:27 pm

Thanks for the fan info. I never saw one with it..... I tried to take apart the opto box but it was glued too well. I wasted a good hr at least... I beleive the opt box loads the signal going to the next stage. Removing that resistance/load may increase your gain and the signal will more distorted/dirty sound. You could just sub a resistor to restore the gain... Most amps that use 6ca7s/EL34s will have 1K 5w individual resistors to keep from pulling too much screen currnent. In the Traynors I've seen they use 1 470 ohm for all 4 outputs. Most people change it..... That adjustable resistor. Those are from the old tube days. It had a metal clamp that slid on the resistor so you could tighten it down where you want to tap it. It was good for voltage supplies and gave you a tap for the volts needed.... You may want to fix the trem for resale valu? Does yours say Made in Canda or US. Some have French with english. It's just a great amp! A solder sucker works great on eyelet circirt boards. Keep me informed........ Cheers!
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Postby nyazzip » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:17 am

my amp sez "yorkville sound ltd, toronto, canada" so i guess it was made there. never heard of a traynor made in usa. although i was born and currently reside in the USA, i can legally claim to be "canadian"; 100% of my relatives are canadian, and i am proud to own a traynor.
but, not only am i proud: objectively, the amp sounds kick ass. much more kick ass than my jcm800, which i clung on to for 10 years-that thing had little bass output, zero usable cleans, and a crappy diode-clipped gain profile. whaddan overrated piece of shite...but, a different animal. shouldn't compare apples to oranges i suppose.
i don't expect to be selling this amp; "resale value" is a moot point. its mine!
i am playing it through two 8 ohm 2x12 cabs, one on each (there are 2 total)output jack(thats 4x12 total on the ygl-3a))...there are no load specs on the back panel, but from what i have gathered, 4 ohms is the ideal load. so, is this a correct configuration? anyone?
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