Need ideas for a low watt high gain homebrew

[Cygnus X1]

I was thinking of building a Fender Deluxe 5E3, but I own a blackface Deluxe Reverb, so I think I have that territory covered fairly well.

So, what I'm really thinking about building is a low wattage, Champ type single ended, with good gain options. I've seen somewhere about running
6V6's chained, to give a nice full gain stage. Does anyone have a schematic/
layout to build something like this?
I've done a bit of work on amps, never built one from scratch, but I feel confident in my ability to pull it off. I'll likely build it as a 5E3, then build on it as time goes on. I have a PT and OT designed to work with the Deluxe 22 watt design, so it should be able to handle whatever I throw at it in gain.

Thanks!

[cartoonweirdo]

High gain low wattage and not a deluxe clone? Sounds like a hot-roded AC 15 or Marshall 18 Watt Design. If you have even more cash to spend build an AC-10 clone (that EF-86 is gonna cost you). Those are my favorite amp in the world if tweaked a bit to add more gain (monkey around with the cathode resistors on the tremolo chanel).

Good luck,
Carl

[Junction]

I built an amp based on the 5E3 design ... single ended, 1 x preamp tube, 1 x output tube. However I am using an EL34 or 6L6 as an output tube, have been swapping them around lately, not sure which one I prefer and will settle on.

I've added a tone stack bypass switch, it just lifts the connection from the tone stack to ground, this gives it a significant level boost, at a guess it might be 10dB and drives the thing into heavy saturation, one might say a "high gain" sound. I have alse used a Champ replacement OT, which is rated to about 7 watts, so with an EL34 or 6L6 it saturates heavily at high volumes and I think it adds positively to the sustain. I do have another higher powered OT which I will try soon to hear the difference as I am kinda wondering if the 7watt OT might give way eventually.

I also used a baxandall (bass and treble) tone stack, I think this gives more aggressive tone control over the original.

It's quite amazing the tone (& volume) you can get from a two tube single ended amp, and it's fun to mess around with the design to see what you can cook up.

Michael

[wyatt]

I was thinking of building a Fender Deluxe 5E3, but I own a blackface Deluxe Reverb, so I think I have that territory covered fairly well.

The Tweed Deluxe has little in common with a Deluxe Reverb. Tweeds have lots of midrange, big but loose low end and the high end rolls off real early. The extra midrange, coupled with low headroom make Tweeds far more like Marshalls than BF/SF Fender.

But the 5E3 isn't a high-gain amp either. Sure, it's a fire-breathing overdrive machine when cranked but the preamp is pretty lo-gain.

Hi-gain amps are usually designed around hi-gain preamps coupled with clean power amps that reproduce the sound pretty faithfully.

So, what I'm really thinking about building is a low wattage, Champ type single ended, with good gain options. I've seen somewhere about running
6V6's chained, to give a nice full gain stage. Does anyone have a schematic/
layout to build something like this?

Look into:
http://www.ax84.com/

The site began a joint effort to design an simple first amp that could be modded easily. It exploded with people designing all sorts of variations...Fender preamps, Marhsall preamps (november), hi-gain preamp, etc. Many of these designs are now in their "classic amp projects" section. The site emphasis has changed to be more modular; under "component amp projects"." You can pick the size of power amp you want and then pick a preamp to match to it.

I've done a bit of work on amps, never built one from scratch, but I feel confident in my ability to pull it off. I'll likely build it as a 5E3, then build on it as time goes on. I have a PT and OT designed to work with the Deluxe 22 watt design, so it should be able to handle whatever I throw at it in gain.

The 5E3 is a wonderful circuit (my #1 amp is a '60 Deluxe), and lots of mods have been designed for it, but I wouldn't consider it a good platform for a hi-gain preamp. if you want to use those DR trannies, I would find a hi-gain preamp you like (Soldano? Dumble?) and match it with a DR poweramp.

A company called Brown Note makes a 22-watt Dumble lone called a D'lite. The cool thing? They also offer it as a kit. The even cooler thing? They publish the assembly guide and layout on their discussion board willingly; they seem very supportive of the DIY crowd.

http://www.brownnote.net/
http://store.bnamp.com/diy.html
http://www.brownnote.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=329

You can easily base your design around this.

[Cygnus X1]

wyatt...
Sorry I was so unclear, but you did a great job reading my mind.
I want the D-lite! I looked at it at work, and tried to figure out if
the PT and OT that I already bought will really work, though.
It would be great if it would.

I also suspect that the sound of the Dumbel lite is dependant on
having a bridge recctifier instead of a tube rectifier.

I have not taken the time to compare the d-lite to the 5E3 circuit.
The idea of having a 6V6 or 6L6 is a great option. I would stay with the 6V6, if I have to. I just don't need all that much volume.

Thank you!

So, how do you suppose the transformers I have will fit in?
Will it work? Or should I just build a 5E3 to get my wings, then tackle the D-lite later? (I really want the d-lite, though...).

[wyatt]

Well, I think you could rework the D'ite preamp and hook it into a normal Deluxe Reverb power amp.

I realize a layout isn't as great as a schematic, so you may have to research some Dumble schematics for voltages over at Schematic Heaven:

http://www.schematicheaven.com/index_HTML.htm

But, if you need something to get your toes wet, a 5E3 circuit is very easy. You'll have to work to get that the plate voltage down if using a Deluxe Reverb power transformer.

[dhuebert]

This has been pretty successful:

http://diytube.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1168

for these guys

http://www.perps.ca/news.html

Don

[Cygnus X1]

Well, I think you could rework the D'ite preamp and hook it into a normal Deluxe Reverb power amp.

I realize a layout isn't as great as a schematic, so you may have to research some Dumble schematics for voltages over at Schematic Heaven:

http://www.schematicheaven.com/index_HTML.htm

But, if you need something to get your toes wet, a 5E3 circuit is very easy. You'll have to work to get that the plate voltage down if using a Deluxe Reverb power transformer.

I guess I ought to do the right thing, and go ahead with the 5E3.
An overdrive mod would be nice, though. I seriously studied the d-lite.
It's something I want to do, but there are far too many differences to
hack into the parts I've already put together for the Tweed Deluxe.
Thanks!
Now back to the Deluxe Reverb...well, that's another post.

[Cygnus X1]

So, Bumbity bump.
The 5E3 is finished, with only two notable mis-steps.
Sounds like a...Fender!

OK, so back on track.
I checked out the D-lite fansites, and all I really got out of the
whole rave was Larry Carlton and Robben Ford. No offense,
but the 67 Deluxe Reverb has a clean tone that can't possibly be beat,
to my tin ears. How does it sound cranked?
I think I offended these fans when I asked.

So, on to what I want...low volume, insane gain.
Think mini-5150, I guess. Champ size with power tube crunch.
And plently of tone options. It looked like the D-lite would do it, but
I'm not willing to plunk down kit money for something I have no idea of what it sounds like.

I heard a cool soundclip of a Brown Note 18-watt.
I wonder if I could easily add bass,mid, treb, presence, gain and master vol to that kit.

[Cygnus X1]

This has been pretty successful:

http://diytube.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1168

for these guys

http://www.perps.ca/news.html

Don

I liked that last tune. Has a Zappa vibe to it!
The tone? I can nail all that with the 5e3, and the DR, with a Boss OD1
overdrive. Good stuff. (Oh, and a Crybaby GCB 95 LOL).
But I want...old Heavy Metal (almost), in a small head. 20 watts is plenty,
if not too much. 5 watts would be perfect.

[dhuebert]

I can nail all that with the 5e3, and the DR, with a Boss OD1
overdrive. Good stuff. (Oh, and a Crybaby GCB 95 LOL).

Jay dosen't use pedals.

Don

[Cygnus X1]

I figured he didn't use an overdrive, but the wah sound?
Maybe I was listening to something else.

Anyhow, how does the high gain sound on it?
That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Or perhaps it doesn't get as much gain as I thought.

Can't seem to get a good answer, and the Brown Note sound clips don't impress me all that much. My current rig sounds better.
Maybe I'm asking for something that's just not there?

Thanks again for all the answers, and the band does sound good, D.

[dhuebert]

There maybe a pedal in there somewhere, I have never seen him use one live tho. They recorded a live set recently, I will try and get some to post. This will give the best idea of his sound.

Don

[Cygnus X1]

OK, I finally got some response to D-lite overdriven.
It isn't what I'm looking for.
The more I look at the d-lite, the more it looks like a SS rectified Tweed Deluxe! Well, it looked good on paper.

NOW, I'm looking at the AX84 SEL (Single Ended Lead) amp.
It uses two 2 12AX7's, and a KT88 (or a choice of many other power tubes).
It also has a full tone stack. Described as insane gain. SS rectified.
Good luck to me trying to find sound clips of it, though.
And, since I'm kind of still a beginner, I'd like to find a layout, with EL34 or 6V6's. I have a schem with a KT88.

[dhuebert]

Why don't you do something like this:



and then you can experiment with a bunch of different schematics and find one you like. Hunting around the way you're doing is less likely to work than building a few versions in prototype form. One of the advantages here is it is easy to try several different preamps, tone stacks, output sections and mix and match. You may find you like two stages of 12AT7 with Baxandal tone stack and split load phase invertor with EL84 PP output with Hammond transformer and no feedback. My point? This is a schematic you're not likely to find anywhere and even if you did how would you know you liked it till you tried it?

Experimenting like this is how I came up with the Hammertone Sixpac. At one point it had two switches: cathode bias/fixed bias and SS rectifier with 150 ohm sag resistor/5Y3 and let the customer play with it and decide what he likes.

I have also taken the above device and did tube rolling with the customer and discovered some interesting differences with various 6V6s. (NOS RCA gave the most country/twangy tone when driven into clipping).

Good luck, I've had alot of fun with all this stuff.

Don