st70-Power Cable Gauge

[corndog71]

Would you like to know what I use for spk wire? I use 14 ga commercial spk wire and it sound the same as the monster wire I bought 36 yrs ago.

Well, I would expect them to sound the same since they pretty much are.
That's what you get when you compare apples to apples.

Have you tried any other kinds or are you just going on your personal beliefs about these things?

[burnedfingers]

Actually your no where near right. The Monster cable from 36 yrs ago is more in the order of 10-12ga. I can start a car with it. I bought it back years ago when I thought that the high dollar wire would make things sound better. Bottom line is the distortion is the same, frequency response is the same and in several blind listening A/B tests no one could say that the Monster cable sounded any better than the cheaper wire. Its suppose to by the way because it has more strands than the cheaper wire does.

Quote:
Have you tried any other kinds or are you just going on your personal beliefs about these things?

Well son its like this ..... have been playing with electronics since the 70's.
I rely on experience what I have tried and or tested. Since I own a bunch of analyzers and assorted gear I can conduct distortion tests and graph frequency response just to name a few. What started out as a hobby turned into a job. On a daily basis I fix the equipment that the morons with money break. I play with anything from home systems in excess of 1/2 to 3/4 million bucks to complicated commercial systems upwards of 75,000 watts of power.

To sum it up for you its like this....wire is wire period. You calculate the gauge of wire you need depending on the length of the cable run. I would be more that happy to give you the loss figures for the different gauges of wire per foot of run if you like. The fancy shit with woven strands gold plated connectors and teflon insulation doesn't sound any better than the commercial stuff I use that is left over from a job. The world is full of idiots that peddle that crap with well thought up hype to the uninformed souls out there with money to spend that think that a $50 connector will outperform something from Mouser that cost say $5
Bottom line is its your money and if you want to throw it down the toilet then go ahead.

To add to your size of the wire feeding the amplifier ideas I will say the following. There are instances where a larger feeder wire to the amplifier is actually needed. The large Crest amplifiers require 30 amp circuits. Some of the more milder amplifiers such as the Ampzilla had a 20 amp service cord on it and when driven into a load center with a sine wave it would sometimes blow the 20 amp breaker. Now it doesn't make a rats butt sense to install a heavy duty 10ga feeder cord onto a Dynaco Stereo 70 that will not draw over 350 watts input.

[Geek]

I have done testing.... sonic impressions and line waveform distorion/noise.

Far more is achieved by adding a line filter... DIY or a nice Corcom. Either way, it's about $50 or less.

Cheers!

[burnedfingers]

Some line filters are good and some are a total waste of money.

I have actually seen home made filters that out perform the commercial units.

[EWBrown]

Most of the commercial AC power line filters just have to meet FCC specs for conducted emissions (they are intended to keep RFI in, more than keep it, out, but then they work in both directions).

These filters are designed to be most effective between 9 KHz and 455 KHz and then gradually less so, from there to 30 MHz. European and Asian and other "international PL filter specs may be somehat different, per each nation's or group of nations' requirements.

The really good "tempest" and other special power line filters are a lot more effictive, rated from 6 KHz to 1 GHz, or for special cases, up tio 10 GHz. Their insertion loss specifications are a LOT more stringent, than the commercial "FCC" filters. Sorry, I cant say anything more, as it falls into the dreaded "classified" area.

The FCC filter specs are readily accessible public information, easily found on the internet, or in electrical equipment spec sheets and catalogs.
The tempest stuff, well, you may end up having a friendly chat with those infamous "Men in Black"

/ed B

[TerrySmith]

One thing you can do is run a dedicated circuit from your power panel. My house has 14ga wiring and 15a breakers. I was thinking of running a 12ga circuit with a 20a breaker or possibly 10ga w/30a breaker to one outlet, nothing else on the circuit.

The reason for all this is the room I use for building and listening is on the same circuit as the next room the wife uses for sewing. Also the sump pump for the foundation shares this circuit and is quite noisy through the speakers.

Switching back to incandescent light bulbs as the CFL's fail seems to quiet things down also.

[burnedfingers]

In the other house I had two 20A circuits just for audio. I actually needed one for the kick butt SS power amp that I built. Was it worth it? No not in the long run.

[Geek]

I have actually seen home made filters that out perform the commercial units.

Absolutely!

Few people know that like an inrush limiter, line filters tend to be good at one current draw.

People get a geewhizbang 30A filter because it's big or was on sale or whatever and find it'll really suck at say, 2A current draw.

Smaller is better in some cases

Cheers!

[EWBrown]

If I use a power line filter, it is generally one of teh small 3A or 6A units, these are commonly available, and I have a selection of both current capacities. They are small enough to use as an AC power input connector, with the standard three wire power cords.

If all else fails, use one of the 1,000 VA toriodal isolation transformers, I have used some which have two 120VAC primaries and two 120VAC secondaries (the unloaded primary and secondary voltages will measure about 5% differently, this is normal.

This works to remove any DC voltage components from the AC power line, and if you have the entire audio system isolated through it then , it eliminates those sneaky AC powerline ground loop situations. I've found these 1KVA toroidal trannies on e-bay and various electronic surplus sites for relatively low prices.

Yeah, CFLa and light dimmer sweitches are the worst culprits, and computer switch mode power supplies are a close runner-up for nasty noise generation problems. At least the computer stuff SHOULD have its own powerline filtering, but then this isn't always the case... Especially with teh cheap PSUs from the computer shows, I'veseen these which had absolutely no AC power line filterijg, the pads were on the circuit boards, but the filter components were not installed. These cheap junkers will really SCREAM with RF interference


/ed B

[Quad]

How good are toroids as isolation transformers?
I remember reading that the EI core makes for
better isolation transformers - something to do with
core saturation, and intra-winding capacitance, I think.

[Geek]

EI's are far more tolerant of extraneous DC on the lines and their cores also magnetize faster.... larger toroids need inrush protectors.

Cheers!

[20to20]

EI's are far more tolerant of extraneous DC on the lines and their cores also magnetize faster.... larger toroids need inrush protectors.

Cheers!

If anyone has DC at their outlets they should turn everything in the house off one device at a time to find the source and fix it.

[Geek]

I had this pair of clients who in one town had so much DC, they were popping fuses on pretty much everything with a toroid.

Turned out to be only at a certain time of day when a factory nearby on the same transformer was running.

They called Hydro who said, "Yup! That'll be murder on your gear, but still within *our* allowances for industrial park grids, so tough luck, pardner!"

Cheers!

[20to20]

I had this pair of clients who in one town had so much DC, they were popping fuses on pretty much everything with a toroid.

Turned out to be only at a certain time of day when a factory nearby on the same transformer was running.

They called Hydro who said, "Yup! That'll be murder on your gear, but still within *our* allowances for industrial park grids, so tough luck, pardner!"

Cheers!

Does the Canadian distribution system allow more than one customer to use the same transformer at an address? Like a central neighborhood transformer everyone shares and has to be subject to BS generated by a neighbor? Otherwise I don't see how DC would cross through transformers.

[Geek]

Seven or eight people are on the transformer outside my house

Cheers!