Top Panels for ST-35s and Ikes

[nineno]

Hello everyone!

I've been a member of the diytube forum and a customer of Shannon's for about two years now. I began by building an ST-35 my last semester in college, and I am currently working on an all-Octal Ike. Over that time, I've been very pleased with the level of camaraderie, technical knowledge and everyone’s willingness to share conceptual and technical ideas with one another.

Since shortly after I built my ST-35, I’ve been toying with the idea of offering a few specific “supplemental” parts for Shannon’s products; namely, metal top plates that are pre-drilled for the all of the transformers and sockets. I’ve mentioned this once or twice before in other threads here in the forum, but never really sought input to figure out what people would want.

My idea for this comes from the fact that the metal working aspect of building these amplifiers seems to be the bottle-neck for many builders.

Of course, before I go charging head-long into making top panels there are several questions I thought I’d pose to everyone.

First: Is there a need? Would you, the builders, be interested in buying a pre-machined top panel for an ST-35 or Ike?

Second: What would be most useful for the builders that are interested:
(A) A panel that fits into an existing wooden frame like those offered on Welborn Labs.
(B) A panel that could be screwed onto the metal boxes offered by Hammond Mfg.
(C) A panel with the features centered in the panel so that it can be cut down to accommodates the largest variety of chassis options (wooden or metal).

Option C is the least appealing to be because it would require most builders to have to cut the panel down, and if they had that capability in the first place they probably wouldn’t want a panel made by someone else!

Third: What metal would people prefer: aluminum or steel? (I would probably have the panels cut from approximately 0.100” material so it wouldn’t bow under the weight of the transformers).

I would just offer plates for the current revision of each board. The Ike presents a unique problem because it can be build with all Octals or 3 Octals and a 9-pin. If the panel is equally popular for both types of builders I could conceivably have panels made up for both configurations. Otherwise, I’d just have all - Octal panels made up and the 9-pin builders would just have a larger-than-needed hole for the pre-amp tube.

If you're interested in what the final panels might resemble, here are pictures of the amplifiers I've worked on:
The ST-35 http://www.diytube.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=82
And the Ikes (links directly to pictures) http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/nineno/semi-assembled_001.jpg
http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/nineno/semi-assembled_004.jpg

The ST-35 board would be an all-metal top-plate. Not the hybrid metal/wood top that I ended up with. The Ike panels would be practically identical to the panels I've made for my own amplifier.

Finally, there is the issue of price. These parts, regardless of material, would be laid out with AutoCAD, and fabricated on a water jet (essentially a super-high-powered squirt gun that shoots water and abrasive grit through the metal sheet to cut out the desired shape). The cut-quality of this technique is far superior to traditional tools (drill bits and panel punches) and provides exact copies.

The cost of material and machine time would probably put the “retail” price of each panel around $40 (regardless of material because the steel is cheaper but requires more machining time and the aluminum is much more expensive, but can be cut quicker).

Therefore, a pair of plates for the Ikes would cost around $80 and a single plate for a ST-35 would cost about $40 (just to be very clear).

If any of you are interested in this, please let me know by replying to this message and giving opinions and feedback. Please feel free to make suggestions as to what features you might want to see, too (vent holes, transformer mounting dimentions, etc).

Thank you, and I look forward to everyone’s input!
drew*

[Shannon Parks]

Hi drew*,

Glad to hear this! If I can ever be of assistance with better dims, etc, let me know.

I was just debating the whole top plate design yesterday with my local tube buddies, Thermion and Francois. We are at a point of semi-disagreement. My idea for top plates would include everything: a hole for a fused IEC connector, on/off switch, RCA connectors and speaker terminals. Doesn't Bottlehead do this? This would permit a very simplified assembly, allow the user to use any type of wooden box or Hammond and also hit a price point (ie feasibility).

The nice thing about the water jet it that you don't need much set up time and can do slight custom jobs, I assume, depending on what the customer has in mind. You might consider springing $149 for the DXF conversion mod for the Front Panel Express software. Customers could use the free and easy to use FPE software and send you the file. You could offer a 25% discount or something from those rates and only offer stock material and thickness. If you are a poor grad student these days then maybe this would prevent you from eating Ramen every meal. Yellow_Light_Colorz_PDT_10

Good luck!

Shannon

[TerrySmith]

I like that idea, esp with aluminum panels. With .100 thickness, it could hold any type of iron and not buckle, Also, the aluminum could act as a sort of heat sink for transformers and other components.

I found a large piece of alu at the scrap yard that measures .080, thats twice the thickness of a Hammond box, and it's more than strong enough.

[nineno]

I was just debating the whole top plate design yesterday with my local tube buddies, Thermion and Francois. We are at a point of semi-disagreement. My idea for top plates would include everything: a hole for a fused IEC connector, on/off switch, RCA connectors and speaker terminals. Doesn't Bottlehead do this? This would permit a very simplified assembly, allow the user to use any type of wooden box or Hammond and also hit a price point (ie feasibility).

The nice thing about the water jet it that you don't need much set up time and can do slight custom jobs, I assume, depending on what the customer has in mind. You might consider springing $149 for the DXF conversion mod for the Front Panel Express software. Customers could use the free and easy to use FPE software and send you the file. You could offer a 25% discount or something from those rates and only offer stock material and thickness. If you are a poor grad student these days then maybe this would prevent you from eating Ramen every meal. Yellow_Light_Colorz_PDT_10

Shannon, thank you for the kind offer for the dimensional data. That will, of course, only help the quality and turn-around time.

I've debated over the features for the top panel myself. Personally, I like just the x-formers and tubes on the top. I think it looks nice (classic, simple, etc), and then a single power switch and indicator on the front, inputs, outputs, power and fuses on the back. However, I do understand the benefit of having everything on top (power sockets, fuse sockets, switches, etc, etc etc) because it means that the need for metal working is eliminated entirely.

So, if any of you other readers/builders have a preference on this please let me know.

I have to shop around for other machine shops that have water jets. The guys I'm currently using do a nice enough job, but their prices are more quantity dependant than most other water jet services I've used in the past. The big kicker is having to go through the PO process. Most machine shops in the area (that have a brisk business) won't even bother with a job under $500.

[nineno]

I like that idea, esp with aluminum panels. With .100 thickness, it could hold any type of iron and not buckle, Also, the aluminum could act as a sort of heat sink for transformers and other components.

Yes, I can atest to the fact that the AL top panels sink a lot of heat. They'll get very warm to the touch, but not enough to burn.

On the IKEs I would consider adding vent holes around the perimeter of the tube socket hole to assist with convetive heat transfer out of the chassis if a majority of people liked this idea too.

[Shannon Parks]

I have to shop around for other machine shops that have water jets. The guys I'm currently using do a nice enough job, but their prices are more quantity dependant than most other water jet services I've used in the past. The big kicker is having to go through the PO process. Most machine shops in the area (that have a brisk business) won't even bother with a job under $500.

I was hoping you had access to a research lab water jet for free. Yellow_Light_Colorz_PDT_06

Shannon

[nineno]

I was hoping you had access to a research lab water jet for free. Yellow_Light_Colorz_PDT_06

Shannon

Oh yea, I meant to clarify from your earlier note: I graduated with my MS MechEng in Dec03, and as-of-yet I haven't given in t the pressure of returning to college. I like eatting real food, not spending 60% of my days in libraries or engineering halls, and not paying tuition!

However, if I did have access to a pro-bono waterjet this process would be much easier!

I'm certain that the company that I work for (a very large, very private manufacture of plumbing products, utility engines, and owner/opperator of some of the finest golf courses and resorts in the world, so I'm told) has a waterjet somewhere, but they wouldn't appriciate side-jobs. So for now, it's machining strictly by-the-books.

If anyone is interested in the cut-quality, you can see my first "for sale" waterjet product through the link below. In addition to building tube amps, I've spent 8 years restoring a 1963 Ford Falcon. I made a few parts in the process and this gauge panel insert was one that I thought several other people might be interested in buying.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4548934599&category=80739&sspagename=WDVW

d*