Decrypting those mysterious Russian Capacitors

[specops]

Hi,

I have a Russian K41-1a 6.3kV 4mkF capacitor - can anyone tell me what the FOIL is made of?

Idoes not react like standard aluminum, does it contain any precious metals?

[EWBrown]

If the foil isn't aluminum, it probably is tin or tin-plated copper



The 0.25 uF 6.3KV unit is large, the 4 uF version must be HUGE! :o

I doubt that there is any precious metal content beyond a trace amount.

FWIW:

According to the GLOBEX website the K40, K41, K42 and K75 are all Paper In Oil

/ed B in NH

[SteveH]

Hrmm. I purchased two 2uF @ 1.5kV PIO units a couple of weeks back (I forget the code on them, I'll report back when I get home). But the thing is about 3"x3"x7".

-Steve

[specops]

:-)

indeed it is big!

I was thinking that it may contain precious metals because of the diamond stencil mark with number '9' inside of it. It could have contained Pd.

I cut it up with an angle grinder, getting the thick oil all over myself.

Inside was a wrap of paper (allcovered with oil) and aluminum-like foil - however it did not oxidise when burnt... reaction to sulfuric and nitric acid was also inconclusive...

here are some pictures:

http://www.allegro.pl/item275925857_wie ... v_nos.html

[EWBrown]

The "diamond" or rhombius mark indicates it was made for military purposes and it can be a quality control mark, as are the letters "OTK" (meaning State Technical Bureau) as described in the first posting of this topic. THis marking is also found on various USSR made tubes.

I just hope that the oil wasn't PCB (I'm not even going to try to spell it out) , that stuff is quite nasty and definitely not good for one's health... Most of the larger oil caps made in the 1950s and 1960s used PCBs.

It is 21 cm wide (8.3 inches) X 11.5 CM deep (4.5 inches) X 25 cm tall (10 inches). Weight 12 KG (26.4 pounds)


I 'll link your photo of this "beast" here:


http://photos02.allegro.pl/photos/orygi ... /275925857

/ed B in NH

[specops]

:-) this one was made in 1986.

Oil was totally neutral - more like thick clear vaseline or glikol (very hard to wash ;-) )

the dimond shape is in general found on all CCCP electronics that contain precious metals :-)

anyway - it was worth a shot :-D

[EWBrown]

I know some of the USSR made vacuum tubes contain trace amounts of gold and platinum, some have gold plated grids, the tube data sheets give the actual amount of each - one would need several truckloads of these tubes, and lots of spare time, in order to recover any reasonable amount of precious metals. There could be a small amount of silver in the capacitor, this was in common use in higher quality electronic parts.

A better source of gold is old ICs and printed circuit boards.

PCB oil was thin and watery and had a rather unique aroma to it, so your giant capacitor apparently didn't contain that.


/ed B in NH

[specops]

Correct.

Vacum tubes are a poor source of metals - we had a truckload and did not cover the costs of extraction. But I promised never to speak of that again ;-)

Russian computers from the 1950 anf 1960 were a good source, but that dried up around 10 years ago.

Big relays and telephone swichboards were reasnoable, if obtained in quantities.

The real jackpot is here:



Aircraft batteries! Back in the day you could get them dime a dozen, but still they come up in Army tenders every now and then.

[EWBrown]

Those look very similar to the USA made NiCD batteries from the 1950s through 1970s. These came in A/H capacity from around 4 AH to well over 100AH, @ 1.2V per cell.

The better quality NiCD cells used metal (stainless steel) rather than plastic enclosures. For aircraft use, weight was a major consideration, but for ground based use, metal was better.

If the container is glass or black rubber, then they are most likely lead-acid cells (2.3 VDC each).

The "Godzilla Monsters" of the battery world were the huge submarine batteries, to power the electric drive motors when rthey were unning in "silent" mode while submerged. These were generally lead and sulfuric acid batteries, same as used in most automobile batteries. Just a LOT bigger :o

32 volts worth of these, a "Windcharger" wind powered generator, and a box full of 32 volt lightbulbs (standard E27 Edison base), was how a lot of rural farm houses first had electrical power, before the power grid was expanded, in the 1950s. I probably still have a few of these 32V bulbs in a box in my cellar, somewhere Yellow_Light_Colorz_PDT_06

They don't last too long when 120VAC is applied to them Yellow_Light_Colorz_PDT_11 Yellow_Light_Colorz_PDT_04

/ed B in NH

[EWBrown]

Another method to "extract" money from the local environment, which will work in any nation over there:

Locate old telephone and power poles which are abandoned or no longer in service, and on the sides of old buildings.

Look for abandoned glass and ceramic telephone and power insulators, recover them, and sell them over at

www.insulators.info or on e-bay.

Some folks collect these (and yes, I'm one of them)

BTW, there are several sellers on e-bay from Belarus, who have been selling HEMAH (Neman) cobalt blue glass insulators. So many, in fact that these insulators, which at one tiime could fetch as much as $1,200 from "serious" collectors, now are available (in 2010) for a\less than $10 plus shipping, which is usually about $18-22.
THen these can be re-sold in the USA for between $50 and $80. Maybe money does grow on trees, or at least, on tepephone poles ;-)

If there are any abandoned transformers, they contain LOTS of copper wire.

Needless to say...

Don't mess with the new ones, the very high voltages are beyond lethal, and the local authorities definitely won't appreciate any "unscheduled" power outages Yellow_Light_Colorz_PDT_02

[EWBrown]

Some more Russian Caps which may be of interest, especially this time of the year

http://www.furhatworld.com/russian-troo ... 42_45.html




/ed B

[dallek]

i have the K40Y-9 and the K42Y-9 does anyone know if the outer foil is on the left? read below

I recently read an article in Vacuum Tube Valley (http://www.vacuumtube.com/) magazine, issue # 11, that dealt with this subject… I was skeptical about such a claim at first. I’ve always known that electrolytic caps had to be ‘polarity oriented’, but never gave signal caps a second thought when installing new ones in amps, stereos, TVs, etc. Well the article explained some experiments with several different types of caps; Illinois Cap MWR - metallized polyester, Nichicon Metallized, 716P SBE Orange Drops, Hovland Musicap - polypropylene film and foil, and 2 others that I wasn’t familiar with.

I had to know what the idea behind this article was so I called Charlie Kittleson at VTV and asked if this really was a ‘concern’ about ‘signal transfer’, and if it actually affected tone in any way. He said it had a lot to do with tone, and asked me how many Fender amps I had. I’ve got about 7, and he asked me if I had time to try an experiment with one of the amps, and to check all the signal caps and their ‘polarity’.

The signal caps should be wired so that the inner foil points toward the output and outer foil points toward the input. The way this is figured out is this: the outer foil was sometimes identified with a printed band on older caps and normally is on the left side of the capacitor when reading the printed information on the cap. If you wire the outer foil to the output side, the sound will be muffled and rolled off. If in doubt, try reversing the leads. Also, avoid using the same brand and type of capacitor throughout the amplifier. Mix and match capacitor brands and types (oil, film, paper, etc.) like you would add spice or seasoning in your favorite dish.

....the reason why the inner foil is connected to the grid of the output tube:
1. Impedance and reactance are different.
2. This in turn, has an effect on the frequency response going through the cap.
3. In general, most inner foils are on the right side of a cap when reading it. When caps are unmarked, you can run a high frequency pulse through it and measure the response on a scope. The best response is indicated by hooking up the positive probe of the scope to the inner foil.

Well, I ‘popped the hood’ on my BFSR and checked all the caps - guess what? 3 of the signal caps were ‘backwards’… I reversed them after listening to the amp for about 15 minutes, and played through it again. The highs were crisper, the mids came alive, and the amp sounded better!!! I couldn’t believe my ears. If you, too, are skeptical try it on your amp; it DOES make a difference!

also read http://www.aikenamps.com/OutsideFoil.htm

[EWBrown]

The K40y (K40U) PIO caps have a little symbol on them, which indicates which end connects to the outer foil, I'll look for a clear photo of this, and append it to this posting. I saw this mentioned on another website, but then the little symbol could just be a manufacturer's mark, which coincidentally indicates the outer foil, which would be on the right hand end of the cap in this photo.

From that explanation , the little symbol (looks like a backwards C) represents the outer foil, the little "arrowhead" represents the inner)



/ed B

[Ty_Bower]

This is how it was explained to me:

[Geek]

Some more Russian Caps which may be of interest, especially this time of the year

http://www.furhatworld.com/russian-troo ... 42_45.html




/ed B

Oh yes, I must wear one for the next PETA meeting

"How terrible, that poor creature on your HEAD!"

"Not really, TERRIBLE was when it was on my BUMPER"

Cheers!