Tube Amp Environmental Realities

[kt88pppamp]

Tube amps are inefficient. The maximum theoretical efficiency of class AB is 78% or so. The Dynaco MKIII is rated to draw 180 watts of power from the wall and it puts out only 60 watts of power. That would make it around 30% efficient. Horrible isn't it?

Not really, here is why.

How are we doing the environment a service if our new "energy efficient" appliances have obsolescent construction built in? The carbon footprint for mass producing non-serviceable consumer electronics must be huge. Also the chemicals, raw materials, and energy needed to make all that stuff must be astronomical as well. Its all made in China, where the environment has literally been ripped to shreds due to regulations that are non-existent.

It is therefore more environmentally friendly to run your old Dynaco's and service them when they fail, rather than replace your modern class D systems every three years after they fail. Doesn't it use less resources to replace a $0.14 resistor rather than the whole thing? I think so. I haven't done the math but common sense tells me that operating a MKIII for a few hours each day would cause less carbon emissions, etc rather than buying throw-away junk from China.

When polluting fossil-fueled power plants are decommissioned in the near and distant future due to fuel costs, the carbon and pollutions will largely become a moot point.

What do you think of the reverse environmental friendly argument for running tube equipment? You can apply the same logic to CFL bulbs with Mercury vs. regular incandescent lamps in a similar fashion.

[Geek]

Somebody actually makes a class-D amp that lasts a few years? New one to me!

[EWBrown]

During the cold seasons, the tube amps are a good and clean source of indoor heat.

Same applies for 100 watt incandescent light bulbs, etc.

Around here, I pretty much just skipped over using CFLs, and am using LED lighting in about 80% of my lighting fixtures and lamps.

/ed B

[kt88pppamp]

LEDs will become the norm very soon. CFL's are what I see as a short term gap filler between LED and incandescent technology.

[battradio]

If your serious that concerned get rid of the speakers,use headphones and get a solar powered IC amp

[kt88pppamp]

Say I were to live off the grid for a few years and the amount of electric power I had was very limited. I will only allow myself a single 20 amp 120 volt service (2.4kW) for my lifestyle delivered by a wind/solar type system. I live in an apartment right now with a full size fridge which is seldom completely full. I am single and only eat only very simple foods (being on the autism spectrum plays a role there).

Therefore, I can get by with only a mini-fridge. My apartment stove is electric and will draw too much power so I will switch to an LP or natural gas system. They even make solar ovens but I am not sure how good they are. I will have to ditch the microwave as it is 1100 watts and will draw too much power. That's fine because I can use the stove to heat leftovers, etc. Microwaves are just for convenience and thus can be considered superfluous. As far as regular ovens go, I can cook steaks, burgers, chicken, etc on the grill. I can even do that in the winter as I am resilient to cold. It tastes better when char broiled medium well anyways . Plus I am trying to eat more vegetables, especially the ones with protein.

As far as tubes and HiFi go, there is no need to ditch that either. My Dyncaco MKIIIs draw around 180 watts each at full power, so only 15% of my total allocated power budget there. Other amenities such as preamps, phono preamps, and turntables will probably only draw an amp or two at the very most. Therefore, I just will build a cabin in the woods dedicated to HiFi listening. No disturbing the neighbors there :). I will be running other appliances such as toasters, vacuum cleaners, lights, etc but never in tandem with one another. Therefore, I can easily change my lifestyle to suit the 20 amp budget as I do not demand all that much energy to begin with. Last, I will need a laptop computer or two. They draw about 90 watts of power, very easy on the budget.

As far as water goes, that depends on where I decide to settle. If the H2O comes from a well, stream, or spring I will be perfectly content gathering it by hand. I came up with a design for a shower system that allows for this as well as washing clothes by hand. If I can find a low enough power electric water heater, I will figure out how to manage that in the power budget as well. I will NOT be relying on bottled water as it is very expensive!

This is a lifestyle I seriously am entertaining trying. It will not be in the near future if I can help it. The high cost of energy and living may reduce me to doing this if I wish to save enough to retire comfortably while pursuing my electronics hobby. I hope I do not have to live this way immediately, but perhaps as a retirement or job-transition type situation is when I might go for it.

What do you think?

[Blair]

Just buy 6-7 dozen good size solar cells and go "Dodd Audio". Of course, you will have a living room full of diesel batteries, but you will be off the grid:)

[DeathRex]

My father has a 9K solar array, he's still on the grid, but his eletric bill is very low.

If you want to live with little electricity, do like most people did back in the 30s and 40s. Most rooms in a house only had one 60 watt bulb, very few electric appliances, most were elbow powered. Open windows for air conditioning, burn coal or wood for heat.

Back before sometime in the 1940s, alot of rural America didn't have electricity, TVA fixed a portion of that. The farmers that didn't have electricity had a windwill or 2 to power stuff in the house. Manufacturers made 'farm' radios that ran on 32 or 36 volts, and they had a 'wind charger' windmill to power that radio and maybe other stuff. Or you would take the battery out of the truck, bring it inside, to run a 6 volt radio.

[Audiophyle]

You want to live completely off grid? Google "Earthship" to see how well you could actually live 100% off grid.
The buildings are ugly as sin but they don't have to be, I think it's mostly just a reflection of the builder's/owner's tastes.

As for your initial post, what you are talking about is the advent of designed obsolescence as a means of boosting consumerism. If you sell everyone a product that will last a lifetime, you will be out of a job the next day. An exaggeration of course, but that's the idea in a nut shell. Planned obsolescence means you can sell the same person the same products over & over because it is cost prohibitive to repair and monetarily cheaper to just replace. (Cheap price at expense of natural resources) economically sustainable, environmentally unsustainable.

I think if you really lived off grid & had to be 100% energy conscious you would rethink your dismissal of amp efficiency, but I agree that a serviceable product will always be more sustainable than a disposable product, but when such a thing interferes with someone making money.... well that part is pretty obvious.

[hilldweller]

Here we have another tree hugger who has been indoctrinated into the earth worshiping, head in the sand, socialist mind set. GOD help us!
When will the blind wake up?

[hilldweller]

You want to live completely off grid? Google "Earthship" to see how well you could actually live 100% off grid.
The buildings are ugly as sin but they don't have to be, I think it's mostly just a reflection of the builder's/owner's tastes.

As for your initial post, what you are talking about is the advent of designed obsolescence as a means of boosting consumerism. If you sell everyone a product that will last a lifetime, you will be out of a job the next day. An exaggeration of course, but that's the idea in a nut shell. Planned obsolescence means you can sell the same person the same products over & over because it is cost prohibitive to repair and monetarily cheaper to just replace. (Cheap price at expense of natural resources) economically sustainable, environmentally unsustainable.

I think if you really lived off grid & had to be 100% energy conscious you would rethink your dismissal of amp efficiency, but I agree that a serviceable product will always be more sustainable than a disposable product, but when such a thing interferes with someone making money.... well that part is pretty obvious.

Amen Brother!!!

[hilldweller]

Say I were to live off the grid for a few years and the amount of electric power I had was very limited. I will only allow myself a single 20 amp 120 volt service (2.4kW) for my lifestyle delivered by a wind/solar type system. I live in an apartment right now with a full size fridge which is seldom completely full. I am single and only eat only very simple foods (being on the autism spectrum plays a role there).

Therefore, I can get by with only a mini-fridge. My apartment stove is electric and will draw too much power so I will switch to an LP or natural gas system. They even make solar ovens but I am not sure how good they are. I will have to ditch the microwave as it is 1100 watts and will draw too much power. That's fine because I can use the stove to heat leftovers, etc. Microwaves are just for convenience and thus can be considered superfluous. As far as regular ovens go, I can cook steaks, burgers, chicken, etc on the grill. I can even do that in the winter as I am resilient to cold. It tastes better when char broiled medium well anyways . Plus I am trying to eat more vegetables, especially the ones with protein.

As far as tubes and HiFi go, there is no need to ditch that either. My Dyncaco MKIIIs draw around 180 watts each at full power, so only 15% of my total allocated power budget there. Other amenities such as preamps, phono preamps, and turntables will probably only draw an amp or two at the very most. Therefore, I just will build a cabin in the woods dedicated to HiFi listening. No disturbing the neighbors there :). I will be running other appliances such as toasters, vacuum cleaners, lights, etc but never in tandem with one another. Therefore, I can easily change my lifestyle to suit the 20 amp budget as I do not demand all that much energy to begin with. Last, I will need a laptop computer or two. They draw about 90 watts of power, very easy on the budget.

As far as water goes, that depends on where I decide to settle. If the H2O comes from a well, stream, or spring I will be perfectly content gathering it by hand. I came up with a design for a shower system that allows for this as well as washing clothes by hand. If I can find a low enough power electric water heater, I will figure out how to manage that in the power budget as well. I will NOT be relying on bottled water as it is very expensive!

This is a lifestyle I seriously am entertaining trying. It will not be in the near future if I can help it. The high cost of energy and living may reduce me to doing this if I wish to save enough to retire comfortably while pursuing my electronics hobby. I hope I do not have to live this way immediately, but perhaps as a retirement or job-transition type situation is when I might go for it.

What do you think?

GO FOR IT !!!

[kt88pppamp]

Here we have another tree hugger who has been indoctrinated into the earth worshiping, head in the sand, socialist mind set. GOD help us!
When will the blind wake up?

I will not get into a debate over religion, politics, and the general ignorance and shortsightedness of the American populous. I am going to say that to sustain a true democracy, and for America to function properly in a post-industrial global capitalist society, a strong intellectual, well educated populous is necessary. That is why I am a vehement proponent of teaching to a critical thinking model in the schools, a luxury I did not have. I only was able to recognize in recent years that teaching absolutes as opposed to critical thinking is a problem. That is the main reason why education is in such a mess. The existing model simply just does not work. Political banter, bureaucrats, and administrators will not correct the issue, only practical solutions that implement a change in the model will.

Also, education is geared towards training administrators, not practical problem solvers. Industry is not hiring college graduates because administrative degrees are in oversupply. There are already too many administrators, and apparently too many more to come. There are shortages of skilled trade workers. Mr. hilldweller for example is a power tool serviceman (according to his profile). Who do you think the next generation of power tool service-people, electricians, machinists, and plumbers are going to be. Out of this administrative wasteland, they will be the ones that will find work. In reality, prestige and educational degree reputation does not matter as much as many individuals think. All I care about is the end result. Will it land me a job or a Yale grad in his parents basement?

[Geek]

Hi folks,

Keep the mudslinging and insults down please.