Interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

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Interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

Postby kt88pppamp » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:45 pm

I am one year from graduating RIT in electrical engineering technology. I have noticed that throughout the United States there is a lack of interest in STEM type majors. Even within my major, the general mood of my classes do not seem as serious as they should be :(

Most of the people that come to me for study help are the oriental students, those from China, India, Kazakhstan, and other Asian and middle eastern nations. I seem to attract them like a magnet for some reason. It seems to me that the immigrant students sent from their homelands to study abroad are more serious than us Americans. I do not think they are any smarter, I just think they are more serious [:) I even hear of tales that due to our STEM shortages, employers are looking offshore for work.

I frankly do not feel entirely satisfied with the quality of education RIT provides. A main issue is critical thinking. Instead of encouraging to students think about a problem, professors just deliver "canned" labs, multiple choice exams, and dull homework problems out of a textbook. A real engineer can think flexibly, apply knowledge in vast arrays of situations, and patiently see his/her project through to its end, no matter how long it takes. Consequently, my GPA is a little below a 3.0. I am reduced to turning to my electronics hobby to gain critical thinking skills. There is only one other student in the engineering technology department that I can name that recognized the merits of an electronics hobby to gain a critical thinking skill set. Everyone else just seems to complain and socialize with their friends, rather than making up for the shortcomings in their education and bettering themselves in their fields :o)

Many individuals have asked me why I elected to work with tubes. For me its not as much the audiophile factor, but the engineering challenge. Tube amps are simple, but I have found through experience that there are more variables that need to be accounted for. Serious critical thinking is necessary to cope with the shortcomings and pitfalls of tube technology. The reward is better critical thinking skills and amplifiers that sounds subjectively superior to solid state technology.

So my questions to you all are

- Why do you think the serious, patient oriental and middle eastern students are attracted to me? American students seem to write me off more.

- What is up with the lack of critical thinking teaching? RIT is considered a top notch school for engineering. @=

I also was recently awarded a patent for some smart grid technology I helped develop. This came about because RIT has what they call a co-op program. A co-op is basically a full-time job that a student must have for one academic term (an internship, but a full-time job). My degree program requires five of them (I completed all five). My last co-op was a startup venture run by RIT students where we pioneered a new concept with smart electric grid technology. How I got involved with them is kind of a long story.

- Was anyone else here awarded a patent whilst an undergraduate in college? My department said they could not remember it happening to anyone else at RIT.
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Re: Interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

Postby WA4SWJ » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:13 am

Hi,

A brief comment - I have a young engineer from RIT that works for me and he is doing an excellent job with analyzing and fixing problems with our older designs as well as developing new designs. I do not think he is lacking in critical thinking skills at all. In fact, he wears me out with it sometimes. So you might be thinking a little too critically about yourself. You're probably much better at it than you think. BTW - I met him through that RIT co-op program you mention when he was doing a couple of co-op stints in our facility in Rochester. I was Director of Operations there at the time. Then I moved to Florida to take over the engineering group at our facility here and when he graduated I "stole" him from our Rochester plant and brought him to Florida where I am now so we could work on our embedded systems designs. So co-op programs can lead to a very good career, but of course, you have to apply yourself while you are working within sponsoring companies.

As for why the foreign students are attracted to you, it might be because you are also serious and no one else pays attention to them like you apparently are. They want to learn and will gravitate to anyone that will help them. A normal reaction I think.

I never had a critical thinking course when I was in engineering school. It wasn't a part of the engineering curriculum at WVU. I think that is a separately taught discipline in itself. Engineering profs are paid to teach technology, not really to teach you how to think critically. They want you to understand the technology. How you put it together into products or solutions to engineering problems is up to you. If you are seriously interested in that subject you might want to take a dedicated course in critical thinking.

Good luck with your degree and I'm glad you are working with tubes. Even though they are "old" technology, there is a lot to them. There are quite a few books that delve deeply into tube technology. Pete Millett had a bunch of them available for download for free. I think he still does but he may have moved them to a separate site since they take so much storage space. I just checked while writing this, here's the link: www.tubebooks.org

Again, good luck and have fun. Technology is indeed fun. Once you're done with your degree you'll know much more than 90% of the population does about how the world works. We need many more young people like you to gain heavy interest in "STEM".

Regards,
Ed Long
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Re: Interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

Postby kt88pppamp » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:17 am

I am taking a Russian history course right now. Comparing early and middle Soviet times to the present is like night and day almost. Russia was a scientifically advanced nation and due to the way the system is run there now, there is resulting brain drain of the intelligentsia. Anyone who is bright enough recognizes the Putin regime (n) is a rights violator and is leaving. The first off the heap are Russia's best and brightest. In Russia, the lack of brains is caused by an upcoming despotic regime, where in America, I argue it is decadent popular culture.

Do any of you feel that the lack of interest in STEM is caused by the popular culture and the lack of emotional maturity of youth and young adults? It seems evident to me that youth focus only on gratifying their immediate desires, drama, and shallow emotions. It used to be this was heavily frowned upon, but now youthfulness, innocence, and nativity as opposed to wisdom, responsibility, and considering ones future are valued. Those that are serious and consider their place in real-life are the ones that commonly are ostracized and unpopular in schools. I was unpopular in high school and I felt proud because I knew their was a greater probability I would make it in life than them. Historically, it always has been the statistical outliers that have done incredible things.

As I result, if I have kids, they will not be going through the public schools. I agree largly with Alfie Kohn's logic that junior high and high school tends to stunt emotional growth like a resistor in a cathode circuit dropping too many volts. Just connect a capacitor and the resistor will not see the AC drop. That simple. The children will learn school subject matter quicker and will learn real life social skills by socializing with adults and kids from families with mature worldly views and belief systems. Algebra in 6th grade anyone ;)

So the moral of the story as I see it is that in Russia, human rights violations are causing lack of smarts. In the states, popular culture is causing a pseudo brain drain, more in the spirit of masking the USA's potential, rather than eliminating it. How do you all see this?
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Re: Interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

Postby coolhandjjl » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:46 am

When touring colleges last year, I took my daughter to MSOE (Milwaukee School of Engineering). I took the opportunity at the lunch hour to really grill some of the professors about the job climate, entrepreneurship, and a whole host or other pertinent topics. They seemed a bit dry in their responses, no real effort to make things exciting. It was the usual "you get a position at a large company doing engineering work, and if you're lucky, you can work your way up to project management". Great. A career path to middle management.

Another thing that hurts is there is no cold war, no space race, or other monster sized government project that rallied youth like it did in the '60's and '70's.

And those republican dolts who continue to denigrate science doesn't help either. Very poor role models IMO. And the president can drone on and on about clean energy, suggesting students pursue STEM careers, etc., but until all our elected leaders and adults all come on board and put their money where their mouth is, things won't change very fast.

Last rant: Any school that offers Fashion Merchandising or Cordon Blue Cooling as a curriculum should have their charter revoked or be put out of business.
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Re: Interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

Postby kheper » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:44 am

kt88pppamp wrote:Most of the people that come to me for study help are the oriental students, those from China, India, Kazakhstan, and other Asian and middle eastern nations. I seem to attract them like a magnet for some reason. It seems to me that the immigrant students sent from their homelands to study abroad are more serious than us Americans. I do not think they are any smarter, I just think they are more serious [:) I even hear of tales that due to our STEM shortages, employers are looking offshore for work.


and

kt88pppamp wrote:Do any of you feel that the lack of interest in STEM is caused by the popular culture and the lack of emotional maturity of youth and young adults? It seems evident to me that youth focus only on gratifying their immediate desires, drama, and shallow emotions. It used to be this was heavily frowned upon, but now youthfulness, innocence, and nativity as opposed to wisdom, responsibility, and considering ones future are valued.


From what I've learned from a brief spin on Facebook, any serious issue (which involves citing facts) cannot be discussed: be it, economics, law, science, etc. Facts are construed as irrelevant (or false), and the bearer of them crude (or evil).

On Myspace, I met up with people who believe that by redefining science-terms, the phenomena associated with them do not exist. For instance, sexual selection is a powerful driver of evolution; It is known to shift gene frequencies in populations. I tried to explain how females of non-human species have mate preferences for the traits (the ornaments) carried by male organisms. For over 140 years, this fact has been confirmed experimentally. The Myspace people redefined the word "preference" so narrowly that it applied in human-only contexts. To them, since non-human organisms never had mate preferences, therefore, sexual selection never occurred, therefore evolution never occurred, therefore biology is potty.

It should come as no surprise that students from other countries are "more serious than us Americans". Some have described this as proof that Western Civilization (which gave birth to logic and science) is spent, disintegrating or has already collapsed. The students from other countries will take a "serious" understanding of the world (that reality is independent of the intrigues of their minds) back to their nations. Their nations will flourish; America will continue to decay.

If we want to blame someone for this state of affairs, we should look into the mirror and point to ourselves.
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Re: Interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

Postby Geek » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:05 am

kheper wrote:...Western Civilization (which gave birth to logic and science)...


Actually, the east did.

The Babylonians had math, science and astronomy traceable to 3500 BC ;)
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Re: Interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

Postby kheper » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:14 am

Geek wrote:
kheper wrote:...Western Civilization (which gave birth to logic and science)...


Actually, the east did.

The Babylonians had math, science and astronomy traceable to 3500 BC ;)


What are recognized as the basic laws of logic (the 3 classical laws: the law of identity, the law of (non)contradiction and the law of the excluded middle) originated in Ancient Greece. What is recognized as science (observation, experimentation, devising theories and testing theories) arose in Europe in the Age of Reason: the era of Kepler, Copernicus and Galileo.

In a very broad sense, the Chinese, the East Indians, etc. had logic. In a very broad sense, the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Mayans, etc. had science. In a very narrow (Myspace) sense, since non-human organisms cannot have mate preferences (despite over 140 years of evidence refuting the Myspace sense), sexual selection is a myth and experimental biology is bird-brained balmy.
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Re: Interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

Postby kt88pppamp » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:55 am

Being a member of generation Y, I understand that we have been shoehorned into an outdated model of societal functioning. The system (schools, government, courts, etc (sick)) by enlarge is functioning, to put it simply, as if it were still in the industrial era. Many millennials are pissed off yet they seemingly do not know what to be angry about. They ranted at the occupy wall street rallies because they were unemployed, in debt, and felt betrayed by the system. The lack of concrete goals the demonstrators had is proof that they do not know what or whom to be angry at. (???) Consequently, it appeared that that were simply making trouble, acting impolite, and rude. (d)

As for STEM careers, I believe the shortage is due to a general lack of interest amongst the population. This apathy is caused by a system that is so inefficient and maladaptive (sick) that it cannot change to meet the needs of its citizens. If it were to change, the whole model of education would need to undergo a paradigm shift to teach skills necessary for global competitive capitalism. This means a greater emphasis on critical thinking, promotion of STEM material, and elimination of "no child left behind style" standardized testing. I do not see this is an issue to blame Republicans or Democrats on, as I feel both belief systems have ideas with great potential.
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Re: Interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math

Postby coolhandjjl » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:57 am

kt88pppamp wrote:This means a greater emphasis on critical thinking..


++++++1


..promotion of STEM material, and elimination of "no child left behind style" standardized testing. I do not see this is an issue to blame Republicans or Democrats on, as I feel both belief systems have ideas with great potential.


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