i don't listen to music/radio around the house loudly. for me, the 17 watts per channel that my st-35 dishes up is adequate(though i have brought it to clip a few times when i felt zany, fairly easily)...
just wondering what the concensus is on "full range" speakers, and what the advantages/disadvantages are.
upon cursory observation it seems like the full rangers are A)not super sensitive and B)very expensive.
so, are there good arguments for their existence? are these superior choices for lower powered hi-fis? if so why, if not, why.....?
i currently use klipsch reference series speakers, rf-52 i believe, about $600 a pair new, max. for the st-35 i believe they are probably overkill. they are rated at 100 watts; sensitivity is around 96 db
full range speaker boxes
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full range speaker boxes
by nyazzip » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:43 am
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by SDS-PAGE » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:59 am
My experience with fullrangers is limited to smaller enclosures, but from two that I got to own the experience has been a positive one. They seemed to do pretty well in the midrange (vocals and strings), but the bass was lacking - I ended up using a sub and that did the trick.
Sensitivity generally goes up with the size of the speaker. Many folks that I made 300B and 2A3 (even 45) amps for use fullrangers with Lowthers, Fostex, Nirvana, and Hemp speakers with much success. Some like their SETs with Zu Druids and Omegas (with Hemp).
As far as the price goes, one could easily put together a nice pair of fullrangers with Fostex speakers for less than $500. There are kits you can buy at Madisound. It gets even cheapter if you cut up some wood yourself - a table saw will help.
Min
Sensitivity generally goes up with the size of the speaker. Many folks that I made 300B and 2A3 (even 45) amps for use fullrangers with Lowthers, Fostex, Nirvana, and Hemp speakers with much success. Some like their SETs with Zu Druids and Omegas (with Hemp).
As far as the price goes, one could easily put together a nice pair of fullrangers with Fostex speakers for less than $500. There are kits you can buy at Madisound. It gets even cheapter if you cut up some wood yourself - a table saw will help.
Min
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by Geek » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:47 am
Hi,
Full rangers go from being 88dB/W sensitive with lotsa bass capability (like the CSS FR125) to 96dB sesitive with the majority of the Fostex hanging around 91 to 93.
As for small/large boxes, depends on what speaker it is. The more sensitive ones like horn loading:
http://www.frugal-horn.com/
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes-fostex.html
Even an Onken spinoff bookshelf:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/fonken.html
(I've heard every design on that page... they are great!)
And the less than sensitive guys can get TL-and-relative enclosures:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/pm-mlvoigt.html
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/tom-zHorn.html
Cheers!
Full rangers go from being 88dB/W sensitive with lotsa bass capability (like the CSS FR125) to 96dB sesitive with the majority of the Fostex hanging around 91 to 93.
As for small/large boxes, depends on what speaker it is. The more sensitive ones like horn loading:
http://www.frugal-horn.com/
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes-fostex.html
Even an Onken spinoff bookshelf:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/fonken.html
(I've heard every design on that page... they are great!)
And the less than sensitive guys can get TL-and-relative enclosures:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/pm-mlvoigt.html
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/tom-zHorn.html
Cheers!
-= Gregg =-
Fine wine comes in glass bottles, not plastic sacks. Therefore the finer electrons are also found in glass bottles.
Fine wine comes in glass bottles, not plastic sacks. Therefore the finer electrons are also found in glass bottles.
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by EWBrown » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:32 pm
The main benefit of FR speakers (like the Fostex, etc) is that these are single point sources, and do not suffer from the phase-changing effects of crossover indictors and capacitors, and having the sound emanating from more than one point source, as with separate woofers, mids and tweeters.
Coaxial 2-way speakers can and do minimize these effects, but the x-overs still can "smear" the sound and weaken the sound-staging.
Granted, decent FR speakers are more expensive, but the quality is worth the added costs, IMHO.
/ed B in NC
Coaxial 2-way speakers can and do minimize these effects, but the x-overs still can "smear" the sound and weaken the sound-staging.
Granted, decent FR speakers are more expensive, but the quality is worth the added costs, IMHO.
/ed B in NC
Real Radios Glow in the Dark
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by Ty_Bower » Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:28 pm
I dunno much about full rangers, but I'm on a mission to find out. I've started building a set of Makizou M-8BH clones this weekend. I'll probably use the Fostex FF85K driver in it.
After these are done, I might someday build a set of big six foot tall double mouth back loaded horns. I suppose you could say that I suspect those full range believers are up to something...
After these are done, I might someday build a set of big six foot tall double mouth back loaded horns. I suppose you could say that I suspect those full range believers are up to something...
"It's a different experience; the noise occlusion, crisp, clear sound, and defined powerful bass. Strong bass does not corrupt the higher frequencies, giving a very different overall feel of the sound, one that is, in my opinion, quite unique."
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by EWBrown » Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:36 pm
I should have added earlier, the major downside of FR speakers is that most of them require using rather complex, specially-tuned and matched boxes, in order to get the full frequency response and efficiency out of them.
Going back some fifty years, the Karlson enclosures were probably the first high efficiency full range design, but they did have some problems with being somewhat harsh and "shouty" in the higher frequencies. I worked around this by using external HF horns and crossovers, with very good results, but these beasts are large and heavy, and will never win any beauty contests.
However, I've used Fostex FE166Es in some Parts Express .25 cu ft sealed boxes, with very good results, other than the low freq stsrts to roll off around 80-100 Hz. But the rest of the audio spectrum works out very nicely with this rather simplistic approach. I actually don't really miss or notice the rolled-off bass response, I suspect that our built-in psychoacoustics makes up for the reduced bass, and after a while, the sound seems perfectly normal and balanced to me.
I have a set of the larger Fostex FE207Es which I want to install into proper boxes, either the hard to find BK-20s or some larger volume sealed cabs,
/ed B
Going back some fifty years, the Karlson enclosures were probably the first high efficiency full range design, but they did have some problems with being somewhat harsh and "shouty" in the higher frequencies. I worked around this by using external HF horns and crossovers, with very good results, but these beasts are large and heavy, and will never win any beauty contests.
However, I've used Fostex FE166Es in some Parts Express .25 cu ft sealed boxes, with very good results, other than the low freq stsrts to roll off around 80-100 Hz. But the rest of the audio spectrum works out very nicely with this rather simplistic approach. I actually don't really miss or notice the rolled-off bass response, I suspect that our built-in psychoacoustics makes up for the reduced bass, and after a while, the sound seems perfectly normal and balanced to me.
I have a set of the larger Fostex FE207Es which I want to install into proper boxes, either the hard to find BK-20s or some larger volume sealed cabs,
/ed B
Real Radios Glow in the Dark
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by nyazzip » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:06 pm
i'm intrigued by those Mazikous...there are so many parallel/right angle surfaces, you'd think it would be an acoustic nightmare in there. soundwaves travel in concentric circles, not concentric rectangles, or so i imagined....i was thinking, maybe some roofing asphalt shingles stapled all over the inner surfaces might help. has anyone ever tried that? seems similar to some of the acoustic dampening materials that sell for ridiculous $$....
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by MashBill » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:35 pm
Ty_Bower wrote:I dunno much about full rangers, but I'm on a mission to find out. I've started building a set of Makizou M-8BH clones this weekend. I'll probably use the Fostex FF85K driver in it.
After these are done, I might someday build a set of big six foot tall double mouth back loaded horns. I suppose you could say that I suspect those full range believers are up to something...
Wow, great minds think alike. Last Saturday my friend and I cut out and assembled 2 pair of Makizou speaker boxes. We're trying to decide how we want to finish them. I'll post pics when they are done.
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by Ty_Bower » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:03 am
MashBill wrote:Wow, great minds think alike. Last Saturday my friend and I cut out and assembled 2 pair of Makizou speaker boxes.
Cool! Whose plans did you use?
"It's a different experience; the noise occlusion, crisp, clear sound, and defined powerful bass. Strong bass does not corrupt the higher frequencies, giving a very different overall feel of the sound, one that is, in my opinion, quite unique."
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by MashBill » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:23 am
Ty_Bower wrote:MashBill wrote:Wow, great minds think alike. Last Saturday my friend and I cut out and assembled 2 pair of Makizou speaker boxes.
Cool! Whose plans did you use?
Not sure... I found this by Googling
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by Ty_Bower » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:47 am
MashBill wrote:Not sure... I found this by Googling
That's the set that appears in the diyAudio thread. I think it was originally posted by member Ioan.
These little devils are tricky to glue together. I'm not much of a carpenter, and keeping all the angles square isn't easy for me. Maybe I'll get better with practice. I'd love to see photos of yours when they're done. Did you have a chance to take a photo of the insides, before you glued on the last side?
Which drivers are you going to put into them? The Fostex FE87E seems most popular, but I've seen some Japanese blogs that suggest the FE83E and the FF85K can also be used. I've also seen some people try other 3" full range drivers. Parts Express sells a nice looking Tang Band for less than $12 each that could probably work.
"It's a different experience; the noise occlusion, crisp, clear sound, and defined powerful bass. Strong bass does not corrupt the higher frequencies, giving a very different overall feel of the sound, one that is, in my opinion, quite unique."
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by crispycircuit » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:15 pm
For me the best attribute is amazing imaging. I've never heard any multispeaker compare. However, they are ususally brite sounding and lack bottom. After a few days you adjust to the different sound and become hooked. Toe in will be very helpful in taming the brite sound. These also tend to be directional and have a tight sweet spot. Once everything is adusted they are very delightful. This my experience with Audio Nivana Super 8's. I look forward to everyones experiences....
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by MashBill » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:48 am
Ty_Bower wrote:MashBill wrote:Not sure... I found this by Googling
That's the set that appears in the diyAudio thread. I think it was originally posted by member Ioan.
These little devils are tricky to glue together. I'm not much of a carpenter, and keeping all the angles square isn't easy for me. Maybe I'll get better with practice. I'd love to see photos of yours when they're done. Did you have a chance to take a photo of the insides, before you glued on the last side?
Which drivers are you going to put into them? The Fostex FE87E seems most popular, but I've seen some Japanese blogs that suggest the FE83E and the FF85K can also be used. I've also seen some people try other 3" full range drivers. Parts Express sells a nice looking Tang Band for less than $12 each that could probably work.
We are using the FE87E drivers. My friend is a cabinet maker and refused to use plain old butt joints. Most of the joints are morticed except for the sides. This helped with the fabrication. I forgot my camera that day, but we took a pic with his wife's camera. I'll post it Saturday.
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